<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 7:45 PM, Emily M. Bender <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ebender@uw.edu" target="_blank">ebender@uw.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">It does look like there's a pretty big dialect difference:<div><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><a href="https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=done+eating%2Cfinished+eating&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=6&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cdone%20eating%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cfinished%20eating%3B%2Cc0" target="_blank">https://books.google.com/<wbr>ngrams/graph?content=done+<wbr>eating%2Cfinished+eating&year_<wbr>start=1800&year_end=2000&<wbr>corpus=6&smoothing=3&share=&<wbr>direct_url=t1%3B%2Cdone%<wbr>20eating%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%<wbr>2Cfinished%20eating%3B%2Cc0</a><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br>Can you get Google Books to plot American vs British English? When I switch the one you linked to American English, I see basically the same trend (the scale is different; American speakers write about being done/finished eating 2x more often than British speakers, but the ratios are similar).<br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 11:34 AM, Ann Copestake <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:aac10@cl.cam.ac.uk" target="_blank">aac10@cl.cam.ac.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> <p>I wonder whether there is a dialect difference. To me "He is done working on that" feel a bit strained and examples of the form:</p> <p>done VVG</p> <p>with the quasi-aspectual reading we're talking about are rather rare in the BNC - I counted 3 altogether (but I wasn't being very careful). I found more examples without a complement, though it's not very common. It's fine for me in contexts like:</p> <p> The meal was great. When they were done, they had coffee.<br> </p> <p>where there's no explicit verb. I think this may only work in cases where there's a fairly clear telic role (as in Pustejovsky) or some other conventionalized situation, but then that'd be expected on pragmatic grounds. <br><span class="m_7420865813244232409HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"> </font></span></p><span class="m_7420865813244232409HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"> <p>Ann</p></font></span><div><div class="m_7420865813244232409h5"> <p><br> </p> <div class="m_7420865813244232409m_-6077131389620866989moz-cite-prefix">On 09/04/18 18:54, Emily M. Bender wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite"> <div> <div dir="auto">But that’s either just an adjective done or the passive participle (with “it” as the subject). You get the quasi-aspectual reading with “he” as the subject. Or that’s what I was going for. </div> <div dir="auto"><br> </div> <div dir="auto">Like Ann though I don’t know what the tests for ellipsis are. </div> <br> <div class="gmail_quote"> <div>On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 10:17 AM Guy Emerson <<a href="mailto:gete2@cam.ac.uk" target="_blank">gete2@cam.ac.uk</a>> wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div> <div>I agree that case is plausibly ellipsis, but what about:<br> <br> </div> </div> <div> <div>"Is he still working on that building?"<br> </div> </div> <div> <div>"No, it's done."<br> <br> </div> <div>Or:<br> <br> </div> <div>"Is he still fitting the windows in that building?"<br> </div> <div>"No, in fact the whole building is done."<br> </div> </div> <div class="gmail_extra"><br> <div class="gmail_quote">2018-04-09 17:32 GMT+01:00 Emily M. Bender <span><<a href="mailto:ebender@uw.edu" target="_blank">ebender@uw.edu</a>></span>:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div> <div dir="auto">“Is he still working on that building?”</div> <div dir="auto">“No, he’s done.”</div> <div> <div class="m_7420865813244232409m_-6077131389620866989m_-3481619431223800434h5"><br> <div class="gmail_quote"> <div>On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 9:29 AM Guy Emerson <<a href="mailto:gete2@cam.ac.uk" target="_blank">gete2@cam.ac.uk</a>> wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div> <div>"The new building is done"<br> <br> </div> The ellipsis would have to be something like:<br> <div><br> </div> <div>"The new building is done being built"<br> <br> </div> <div>But this sounds awkward to me. Maybe "done" and "finished" pattern with adjectives that can't take a complement:<br> <br> </div> <div>"The new building is ready/complete"<br> </div> <div><br> </div> </div> <div class="gmail_extra"><br> <div class="gmail_quote">2018-04-09 14:19 GMT+01:00 Ann Copestake <span><<a href="mailto:aac10@cl.cam.ac.uk" target="_blank">aac10@cl.cam.ac.uk</a>></span>:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> <p>my intuition is that there's no ellipsis - I don't know how to test that, though<br> </p> <div> <div class="m_7420865813244232409m_-6077131389620866989m_-3481619431223800434m_365678170908420168m_5482336798810589867h5"> <br> <div class="m_7420865813244232409m_-6077131389620866989m_-3481619431223800434m_365678170908420168m_5482336798810589867m_-7567825495734780756moz-cite-prefix">On 09/04/18 14:02, Emily M. Bender wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite"> <div>I think it's more than just saying that it's optional though --- I think the meaning Paul was looking for there involves ellipsis, which probably isn't get enabled for "done", "finished", and whatever else goes into that class. <div><br> </div> <div>Emily</div> <div><br> </div> </div> <div class="gmail_extra"><br> <div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 12:34 AM, Ann Copestake <span><<a href="mailto:aac10@cl.cam.ac.uk" target="_blank">aac10@cl.cam.ac.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <p>is it just that `done' as an adjective is in the ERG as requiring a complement and should be allowed to appear without one? as in "the chicken is done" etc So a matter of a modification to a lexical entry. (I admit I am emailing without checking ...)</p> <p>All best,</p> <p>Ann<br> </p> <div> <div class="m_7420865813244232409m_-6077131389620866989m_-3481619431223800434m_365678170908420168m_5482336798810589867m_-7567825495734780756h5"> <br> <div class="m_7420865813244232409m_-6077131389620866989m_-3481619431223800434m_365678170908420168m_5482336798810589867m_-7567825495734780756m_-2257869889126536995moz-cite-prefix">On 06/04/2018 23:21, <a class="m_7420865813244232409m_-6077131389620866989m_-3481619431223800434m_365678170908420168m_5482336798810589867m_-7567825495734780756m_-2257869889126536995moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:paul@haleyai.com" target="_blank">paul@haleyai.com</a> wrote:<br> </div> </div> </div> <blockquote type="cite"> <div> <div class="m_7420865813244232409m_-6077131389620866989m_-3481619431223800434m_365678170908420168m_5482336798810589867m_-7567825495734780756h5"> <div class="m_7420865813244232409m_-6077131389620866989m_-3481619431223800434m_365678170908420168m_5482336798810589867m_-7567825495734780756m_-2257869889126536995WordSection1"> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Thanks Olga and Woodley. </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I understood the passive but had not considered “X did him”! The others, to the best of my knowledge, leave X as the subject (not ARG2 or ARG3), no??</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">You are correct regarding what I expected Woodley and it may not be in the ERG. The top parse for “he is done cooking” has him as the subject (with some interesting variations). </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I understood the possibility that some unspecified agent was doing something to him (as in one interpretation of “he is done cooking”) and would have been impressed to see some “unknown” in the MRS to that effect.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">At least I can make sense of this interpretation now, even though I was hoping for something else.</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Thanks again,</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Paul</span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p> <div> <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"> <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Woodley Packard <a class="m_7420865813244232409m_-6077131389620866989m_-3481619431223800434m_365678170908420168m_5482336798810589867m_-7567825495734780756m_-2257869889126536995moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sweaglesw@sweaglesw.org" target="_blank"><sweaglesw@sweaglesw.org></a> <br> <b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 6, 2018 6:04 PM<br> <b>To:</b> <a class="m_7420865813244232409m_-6077131389620866989m_-3481619431223800434m_365678170908420168m_5482336798810589867m_-7567825495734780756m_-2257869889126536995moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:paul@haleyai.com" target="_blank">paul@haleyai.com</a><br> <b>Cc:</b> developers <a class="m_7420865813244232409m_-6077131389620866989m_-3481619431223800434m_365678170908420168m_5482336798810589867m_-7567825495734780756m_-2257869889126536995moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:developers@delph-in.net" target="_blank"><developers@delph-in.net></a><br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [developers] on-line demo / simple sentence</span></p> </div> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"> </p> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">As Olga pointed out, these are passive readings. They correspond to something like:</p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"> </p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">X did a good job.</p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">X did him.</p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">He is done( by X).</p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"> </p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">X did his neighbor a favor.</p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">X did his homework a favor.</p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">? X did his homework him.</p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">?? He is done his homework( by X).</p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"> </p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">I suspect the reading you are looking for instead involves a sense of "done" conveying completion of an unspecified event, rather than a passive variant of "do". I’m not sure that sense is implemented in the ERG, although I can’t speak for Dan for sure on that. I see parses with that sense when the event in question is an explicit complement of the adjective "done", e.g. for:</p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"> </p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">He is done eating.</p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"> </p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">Best,</p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">-Woodley</p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"> </p> <div> <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"> <div> <p class="MsoNormal">On Apr 6, 2018, at 2:36 PM, <<a href="mailto:paul@haleyai.com" target="_blank">paul@haleyai.com</a>> <<a href="mailto:paul@haleyai.com" target="_blank">paul@haleyai.com</a>> wrote:</p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"> </p> <div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Hi, <span class="m_7420865813244232409m_-6077131389620866989m_-3481619431223800434m_365678170908420168m_5482336798810589867m_-7567825495734780756m_-2257869889126536995apple-converted-space"> </span></span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I’m afraid I have a stupid question, but am a bit surprised at the following results (the MRS, in particular, having “he” as ARG2 or ARG3).</span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Does this look right to those of you who know more than I? Can you help me understand the subject of the “do” predication here, if so?</span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Thank you,</span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Paul</span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><image002.png></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><image001.png></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"> </p> </div> <div> <p class="MsoNormal"><image003.png></p> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"> </p> </div> </div> </div> <div id="m_7420865813244232409m_-6077131389620866989m_-3481619431223800434m_365678170908420168m_5482336798810589867m_-7567825495734780756m_-2257869889126536995DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br> <table style="border-top:1px solid #d3d4de"> <tbody> <tr> <td style="width:55px;padding-top:13px"><a href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><img src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png" alt="" style="width:46px;height:29px" width="46" height="29"></a></td> <td style="width:470px;padding-top:12px;color:#41424e;font-size:13px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;line-height:18px">Virus-free. <a href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" style="color:#4453ea" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <a href="#m_7420865813244232409_m_-6077131389620866989_m_-3481619431223800434_m_365678170908420168_m_5482336798810589867_m_-7567825495734780756_m_-2257869889126536995_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1" height="1"> </a></div> </blockquote> <br> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br> <br clear="all"> <div><br> </div> -- <br> <div class="m_7420865813244232409m_-6077131389620866989m_-3481619431223800434m_365678170908420168m_5482336798810589867m_-7567825495734780756gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div>Emily M. Bender<br> Professor, <span style="font-size:12.8px">Department of Linguistics</span></div> <div>Check out CLMS on facebook! <a href="http://www.facebook.com/uwclma" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/uwclma</a><br> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> <br> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br> </div> </blockquote> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="m_7420865813244232409m_-6077131389620866989m_-3481619431223800434HOEnZb"> <div class="m_7420865813244232409m_-6077131389620866989m_-3481619431223800434h5">-- <br> <div class="m_7420865813244232409m_-6077131389620866989m_-3481619431223800434m_365678170908420168gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"> <div> <div> <div> <div> <div>Emily M. Bender<br> Professor, <span style="font-size:12.8px">Department of Linguistics</span></div> <div>Check out CLMS on facebook! <a href="http://www.facebook.com/uwclma" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/uwclma</a><br> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br> </div> </blockquote> </div> </div> -- <br> <div dir="ltr" class="m_7420865813244232409m_-6077131389620866989gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"> <div dir="ltr"> <div> <div dir="ltr"> <div> <div dir="ltr">Emily M. Bender<br> Professor, <span style="font-size:12.8px">Department of Linguistics</span></div> <div dir="ltr">Check out CLMS on facebook! <a href="http://www.facebook.com/uwclma" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/uwclma</a><br> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> <br> </div></div></div> </blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="m_7420865813244232409gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Emily M. Bender<br>Professor, <span style="font-size:12.8px">Department of Linguistics</span></div><div dir="ltr">Check out CLMS on facebook! <a href="http://www.facebook.com/uwclma" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/uwclma</a><br></div></div></div></div></div></div> </div></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"> </div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Michael Wayne Goodman</div></div></div></div></div></div> </div></div>