<html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <div class="moz-cite-prefix">What logical semantics is appropriate for "kim left and sandy did so, too"? <br> <br> They may have left together or at different times or independently at the same time.  <br> <br> In theory, all of these logical/semantic interpretations should be consistent with the resulting underspecified semantics.<br> <br> The MRS below corresponds, roughly to:<br> <br> exists(e10,e14,x6,x17){leave(e10,x6),named(x6,Kim),do_so(e14,x17),named(x17,Sandy)}<br> <br> If e14 co-references e10, this implies there is one leaving event "performed by" both Kim and Sandy, which may or may not be the appropriate logical interpretation.<br> <br> If not, how is e14 to understood as a leaving?<br> <br> One resolution of this would be to have an argument, such as follows:<br> <br> exists(e10,e14,x6,x17){leave(e10,x6),named(x6,Kim),do(e14,e10,x17),named(x17,Sandy)}<br> <br> This representation would allow either semantics to result from further (logical) disambiguation.  <br> <br> I submit that the MRS resulting now is insufficient to represent the underspecified semantics.<br> <br> Alternatively, I suppose, one could introduce an underspecified form of co-reference in which e14  references e10 other than as logically equivalent, but that raises issues not previously addressed (in any literature that I have seen) with regard to the relationship between underspecified representation and logical axioms.<br> <br> <br> On 10/15/2013 11:29 AM, Emily M. Bender wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote cite="mid:CAMype6fywLH_N50aJMM13SV=81ZgmZBni0gVwTyx3u3mt7GVow@mail.gmail.com" type="cite"> <div dir="ltr">[Keeping this on-list] <div><br> </div> <div>Hi Paul, </div> <div><br> </div> <div>The analysis in the ERG is that do+so is a pro-verb, the whole thing stands in for the event.  The point of my examples was that that event might have any number of participants, and so looking for an ARG2 specifically seems misguided.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Emily</div> <div><br> </div> </div> <div class="gmail_extra"><br> <br> <div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 2:56 AM, Paul Haley <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:paul@haleyai.com" target="_blank">paul@haleyai.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> <div>But in the MRS there is nothing that relates the doing to the leaving or betting!?  That's the problem.  The semantics is wrong.<br> <br> Worse, "it" is frequently interchangeable with "so" in such constructions, as shown below (as in the case of my first example further below).  The pronoun refers to the event, of course.  That reference is missing in the semantics for "so".  <br> <br> Seems to me that "so" in this construction is an 'e' pronoun (where "it" is a 'x' pronoun below, which could also be a bug, imo.)<br> <br> <img src="cid:part2.04030004.00090700@haleyai.com" alt=""><br> <br> <img src="cid:part3.00010407.03060304@haleyai.com" alt=""> <div> <div class="h5"><br> On 10/10/2013 7:28 PM, Emily M. Bender wrote:<br> </div> </div> </div> <div> <div class="h5"> <blockquote type="cite"> <div dir="ltr">But "so" in "do so" doesn't actually stand in for the ARG2: <div><br> </div> <div>Kim left, and Sandy did so too.</div> <div>Kim bet Pat $500 that the Giants would win, and Sandy did so too.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Emily</div> <div><br> </div> </div> <div class="gmail_extra"><br> <br> <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 5:42 AM, Paul Haley <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:paul@haleyai.com" target="_blank">paul@haleyai.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> <div>Apologies for a couple of typos below, and one clarification.<br> <br> It's not really important whether "so" is treated as a pronoun or do-so as a proto-verb but by "direct object" I meant an ARG2 in the predication for do_v_so corresponding to whatever "so" references or introduces or substitutes for. <div> <div><br> <br> <br> On 10/9/2013 8:34 AM, Paul Haley wrote:<br> </div> </div> </div> <div> <div> <blockquote type="cite"> <div>Hi Emily!<br> <br> Yes, but I'm suggest that "pro-" is "pronomial" not "proto"!-)  Generally, don't we want elipsis to be reflected in the semantics?  That is, in the "u" and "i" type variables in the MRS (or unresolved pronouns)?<br> <br> Shouldn't the MRS for for that doing have an argument to be resolved against the situational argument for the moving?  That argument would be "so" treated as a pronoun, which seems the proper semantics since the "so" actually/semantically references some event/situation, no?  That is, if pronomial "so" was the direct object of "do" here, I think all would be well.<br> <br> Paul<br> <br> <br> <br> On 10/8/2013 9:14 PM, Emily M. Bender wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite"> <div dir="ltr">Hello Paul, <div><br> </div> <div>It looks like "do so" is being treated as a "pro-verb", and that seems appropriate to me.  Proverbs (like ellipsis) take their interpretation from context.  So this says basically that</div> <div>x6 is doing something, but what that something is needs to be resolved.  </div> <div><br> </div> <div>Emily</div> </div> <div class="gmail_extra"><br> <br> <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 9:33 AM, Paul Haley <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:paul@haleyai.com" target="_blank">paul@haleyai.com</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> <div>Hi All,<br> <br> In the following, it seems that "so" is more of a pronoun than a preposition (at least it seems "so" to me!).<br> <br> I would appreciate your thoughts on getting reasonable logic from the ERG for this sentence, which is quite interesting when you also consider quantification...<br> <br> <img src="cid:part6.09070902.06080402@haleyai.com" alt=""><br> <br> Thank you and best regards,<br> Paul<br> <br> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br> <br clear="all"> <div><br> </div> -- <br> Emily M. Bender<br> Associate Professor<br> Department of Linguistics<br> Check out CLMS on facebook! <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.facebook.com/uwclma" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/uwclma</a><br> </div> </blockquote> <br> </blockquote> <br> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br> <br clear="all"> <div><br> </div> -- <br> Emily M. Bender<br> Associate Professor<br> Department of Linguistics<br> Check out CLMS on facebook! <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.facebook.com/uwclma" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/uwclma</a><br> </div> </blockquote> <br> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br> <br clear="all"> <div><br> </div> -- <br> Emily M. Bender<br> Associate Professor<br> Department of Linguistics<br> Check out CLMS on facebook! <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.facebook.com/uwclma" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/uwclma</a><br> </div> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html>