[developers] on-line demo / simple sentence

Tue Apr 10 04:45:15 CEST 2018

It does look like there's a pretty big dialect difference:

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=done+eating%2Cfinished+eating&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=6&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cdone%20eating%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cfinished%20eating%3B%2Cc0

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 11:34 AM, Ann Copestake <aac10 at cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote:

> I wonder whether there is a dialect difference.  To me "He is done working
> on that" feel a bit strained and examples of the form:
>
> done VVG
>
> with the quasi-aspectual reading we're talking about are rather rare in
> the BNC - I counted 3 altogether (but I wasn't being very careful).  I
> found more examples without a complement, though it's not very common.
> It's fine for me in contexts like:
>
>   The meal was great.  When they were done, they had coffee.
>
> where there's no explicit verb.  I think this may only work in cases where
> there's a fairly clear telic role (as in Pustejovsky) or some other
> conventionalized situation, but then that'd be expected on pragmatic
> grounds.
>
> Ann
>
>
> On 09/04/18 18:54, Emily M. Bender wrote:
>
> But that’s either just an adjective done or the passive participle (with
> “it” as the subject). You get the quasi-aspectual reading with “he” as the
> subject. Or that’s what I was going for.
>
> Like Ann though I don’t know what the tests for ellipsis are.
>
> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 10:17 AM Guy Emerson <gete2 at cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> I agree that case is plausibly ellipsis, but what about:
>>
>> "Is he still working on that building?"
>> "No, it's done."
>>
>> Or:
>>
>> "Is he still fitting the windows in that building?"
>> "No, in fact the whole building is done."
>>
>> 2018-04-09 17:32 GMT+01:00 Emily M. Bender <ebender at uw.edu>:
>>
>>> “Is he still working on that building?”
>>> “No, he’s done.”
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 9:29 AM Guy Emerson <gete2 at cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "The new building is done"
>>>>
>>>> The ellipsis would have to be something like:
>>>>
>>>> "The new building is done being built"
>>>>
>>>> But this sounds awkward to me.  Maybe "done" and "finished" pattern
>>>> with adjectives that can't take a complement:
>>>>
>>>> "The new building is ready/complete"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2018-04-09 14:19 GMT+01:00 Ann Copestake <aac10 at cl.cam.ac.uk>:
>>>>
>>>>> my intuition is that there's no ellipsis - I don't know how to test
>>>>> that, though
>>>>>
>>>>> On 09/04/18 14:02, Emily M. Bender wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it's more than just saying that it's optional though --- I
>>>>> think the meaning Paul was looking for there involves ellipsis, which
>>>>> probably isn't get enabled for "done", "finished", and whatever else goes
>>>>> into that class.
>>>>>
>>>>> Emily
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 12:34 AM, Ann Copestake <aac10 at cl.cam.ac.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> is it just that `done' as an adjective is in the ERG as requiring a
>>>>>> complement and should be allowed to appear without one?  as in "the chicken
>>>>>> is done" etc  So a matter of a modification to a lexical entry.  (I admit I
>>>>>> am emailing without checking ...)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ann
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 06/04/2018 23:21, paul at haleyai.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Olga and Woodley.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I understood the passive but had not considered “X did him”!   The
>>>>>> others, to the best of my knowledge, leave X as the subject (not ARG2 or
>>>>>> ARG3), no??
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are correct regarding what I expected Woodley and it may not be
>>>>>> in the ERG.  The top parse for “he is done cooking” has him as the subject
>>>>>> (with some interesting variations).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I understood the possibility that some unspecified agent was doing
>>>>>> something to him (as in one interpretation of “he is done cooking”) and
>>>>>> would have been impressed to see some “unknown” in the MRS to that effect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At least I can make sense of this interpretation now, even though I
>>>>>> was hoping for something else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks again,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* Woodley Packard <sweaglesw at sweaglesw.org>
>>>>>> <sweaglesw at sweaglesw.org>
>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, April 6, 2018 6:04 PM
>>>>>> *To:* paul at haleyai.com
>>>>>> *Cc:* developers <developers at delph-in.net> <developers at delph-in.net>
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [developers] on-line demo / simple sentence
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As Olga pointed out, these are passive readings.  They correspond to
>>>>>> something like:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> X did a good job.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> X did him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He is done( by X).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> X did his neighbor a favor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> X did his homework a favor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ? X did his homework him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ?? He is done his homework( by X).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suspect the reading you are looking for instead involves a sense of
>>>>>> "done" conveying completion of an unspecified event, rather than a passive
>>>>>> variant of "do".  I’m not sure that sense is implemented in the ERG,
>>>>>> although I can’t speak for Dan for sure on that.  I see parses with that
>>>>>> sense when the event in question is an explicit complement of the adjective
>>>>>> "done", e.g. for:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He is done eating.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Woodley
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Apr 6, 2018, at 2:36 PM, <paul at haleyai.com> <paul at haleyai.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I’m afraid I have a stupid question, but am a bit surprised at the
>>>>>> following results (the MRS, in particular, having “he” as ARG2 or ARG3).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does this look right to those of you who know more than I?  Can you
>>>>>> help me understand the subject of the “do” predication here, if so?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <image002.png>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <image001.png>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <image003.png>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> Virus-free.
>>>>>> www.avg.com
>>>>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>>>>>> <#m_-6077131389620866989_m_-3481619431223800434_m_365678170908420168_m_5482336798810589867_m_-7567825495734780756_m_-2257869889126536995_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Emily M. Bender
>>>>> Professor, Department of Linguistics
>>>>> Check out CLMS on facebook! http://www.facebook.com/uwclma
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>> Emily M. Bender
>>> Professor, Department of Linguistics
>>> Check out CLMS on facebook! http://www.facebook.com/uwclma
>>>
>>
>> --
> Emily M. Bender
> Professor, Department of Linguistics
> Check out CLMS on facebook! http://www.facebook.com/uwclma
>
>
>

-- 
Emily M. Bender
Professor, Department of Linguistics
Check out CLMS on facebook! http://www.facebook.com/uwclma
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