[developers] on-line demo / simple sentence
Ann Copestake
aac10 at cl.cam.ac.uk
Mon Apr 9 20:34:14 CEST 2018
I wonder whether there is a dialect difference. To me "He is done
working on that" feel a bit strained and examples of the form:
done VVG
with the quasi-aspectual reading we're talking about are rather rare in
the BNC - I counted 3 altogether (but I wasn't being very careful). I
found more examples without a complement, though it's not very common.
It's fine for me in contexts like:
The meal was great. When they were done, they had coffee.
where there's no explicit verb. I think this may only work in cases
where there's a fairly clear telic role (as in Pustejovsky) or some
other conventionalized situation, but then that'd be expected on
pragmatic grounds.
Ann
On 09/04/18 18:54, Emily M. Bender wrote:
> But that’s either just an adjective done or the passive participle
> (with “it” as the subject). You get the quasi-aspectual reading with
> “he” as the subject. Or that’s what I was going for.
>
> Like Ann though I don’t know what the tests for ellipsis are.
>
> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 10:17 AM Guy Emerson <gete2 at cam.ac.uk
> <mailto:gete2 at cam.ac.uk>> wrote:
>
> I agree that case is plausibly ellipsis, but what about:
>
> "Is he still working on that building?"
> "No, it's done."
>
> Or:
>
> "Is he still fitting the windows in that building?"
> "No, in fact the whole building is done."
>
> 2018-04-09 17:32 GMT+01:00 Emily M. Bender <ebender at uw.edu
> <mailto:ebender at uw.edu>>:
>
> “Is he still working on that building?”
> “No, he’s done.”
>
> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 9:29 AM Guy Emerson <gete2 at cam.ac.uk
> <mailto:gete2 at cam.ac.uk>> wrote:
>
> "The new building is done"
>
> The ellipsis would have to be something like:
>
> "The new building is done being built"
>
> But this sounds awkward to me. Maybe "done" and
> "finished" pattern with adjectives that can't take a
> complement:
>
> "The new building is ready/complete"
>
>
> 2018-04-09 14:19 GMT+01:00 Ann Copestake
> <aac10 at cl.cam.ac.uk <mailto:aac10 at cl.cam.ac.uk>>:
>
> my intuition is that there's no ellipsis - I don't
> know how to test that, though
>
>
> On 09/04/18 14:02, Emily M. Bender wrote:
>> I think it's more than just saying that it's optional
>> though --- I think the meaning Paul was looking for
>> there involves ellipsis, which probably isn't get
>> enabled for "done", "finished", and whatever else
>> goes into that class.
>>
>> Emily
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 12:34 AM, Ann Copestake
>> <aac10 at cl.cam.ac.uk <mailto:aac10 at cl.cam.ac.uk>> wrote:
>>
>> is it just that `done' as an adjective is in the
>> ERG as requiring a complement and should be
>> allowed to appear without one? as in "the chicken
>> is done" etc So a matter of a modification to a
>> lexical entry. (I admit I am emailing without
>> checking ...)
>>
>> All best,
>>
>> Ann
>>
>>
>> On 06/04/2018 23:21, paul at haleyai.com
>> <mailto:paul at haleyai.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks Olga and Woodley.
>>>
>>> I understood the passive but had not considered
>>> “X did him”! The others, to the best of my
>>> knowledge, leave X as the subject (not ARG2 or
>>> ARG3), no??
>>>
>>> You are correct regarding what I expected
>>> Woodley and it may not be in the ERG. The top
>>> parse for “he is done cooking” has him as the
>>> subject (with some interesting variations).
>>>
>>> I understood the possibility that some
>>> unspecified agent was doing something to him (as
>>> in one interpretation of “he is done cooking”)
>>> and would have been impressed to see some
>>> “unknown” in the MRS to that effect.
>>>
>>> At least I can make sense of this interpretation
>>> now, even though I was hoping for something else.
>>>
>>> Thanks again,
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> *From:*Woodley Packard <sweaglesw at sweaglesw.org>
>>> <mailto:sweaglesw at sweaglesw.org>
>>> *Sent:* Friday, April 6, 2018 6:04 PM
>>> *To:* paul at haleyai.com <mailto:paul at haleyai.com>
>>> *Cc:* developers <developers at delph-in.net>
>>> <mailto:developers at delph-in.net>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [developers] on-line demo /
>>> simple sentence
>>>
>>> As Olga pointed out, these are passive readings.
>>> They correspond to something like:
>>>
>>> X did a good job.
>>>
>>> X did him.
>>>
>>> He is done( by X).
>>>
>>> X did his neighbor a favor.
>>>
>>> X did his homework a favor.
>>>
>>> ? X did his homework him.
>>>
>>> ?? He is done his homework( by X).
>>>
>>> I suspect the reading you are looking for
>>> instead involves a sense of "done" conveying
>>> completion of an unspecified event, rather than
>>> a passive variant of "do". I’m not sure that
>>> sense is implemented in the ERG, although I
>>> can’t speak for Dan for sure on that. I see
>>> parses with that sense when the event in
>>> question is an explicit complement of the
>>> adjective "done", e.g. for:
>>>
>>> He is done eating.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> -Woodley
>>>
>>> On Apr 6, 2018, at 2:36 PM,
>>> <paul at haleyai.com <mailto:paul at haleyai.com>>
>>> <paul at haleyai.com <mailto:paul at haleyai.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I’m afraid I have a stupid question, but am
>>> a bit surprised at the following results
>>> (the MRS, in particular, having “he” as ARG2
>>> or ARG3).
>>>
>>> Does this look right to those of you who
>>> know more than I? Can you help me
>>> understand the subject of the “do”
>>> predication here, if so?
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> <image002.png>
>>>
>>> <image001.png>
>>>
>>> <image003.png>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>> <#m_-3481619431223800434_m_365678170908420168_m_5482336798810589867_m_-7567825495734780756_m_-2257869889126536995_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Emily M. Bender
>> Professor, Department of Linguistics
>> Check out CLMS on facebook!
>> http://www.facebook.com/uwclma
>
>
> --
> Emily M. Bender
> Professor, Department of Linguistics
> Check out CLMS on facebook! http://www.facebook.com/uwclma
>
>
> --
> Emily M. Bender
> Professor, Department of Linguistics
> Check out CLMS on facebook! http://www.facebook.com/uwclma
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