[developers] on-line demo / simple sentence

Tue Apr 10 05:12:20 CEST 2018

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 7:45 PM, Emily M. Bender <ebender at uw.edu> wrote:

> It does look like there's a pretty big dialect difference:
>
> https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=done+
> eating%2Cfinished+eating&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&
> corpus=6&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cdone%
> 20eating%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cfinished%20eating%3B%2Cc0
>

Can you get Google Books to plot American vs British English? When I switch
the one you linked to American English, I see basically the same trend (the
scale is different; American speakers write about being done/finished
eating 2x more often than British speakers, but the ratios are similar).

> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 11:34 AM, Ann Copestake <aac10 at cl.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> I wonder whether there is a dialect difference.  To me "He is done
>> working on that" feel a bit strained and examples of the form:
>>
>> done VVG
>>
>> with the quasi-aspectual reading we're talking about are rather rare in
>> the BNC - I counted 3 altogether (but I wasn't being very careful).  I
>> found more examples without a complement, though it's not very common.
>> It's fine for me in contexts like:
>>
>>   The meal was great.  When they were done, they had coffee.
>>
>> where there's no explicit verb.  I think this may only work in cases
>> where there's a fairly clear telic role (as in Pustejovsky) or some other
>> conventionalized situation, but then that'd be expected on pragmatic
>> grounds.
>>
>> Ann
>>
>>
>> On 09/04/18 18:54, Emily M. Bender wrote:
>>
>> But that’s either just an adjective done or the passive participle (with
>> “it” as the subject). You get the quasi-aspectual reading with “he” as the
>> subject. Or that’s what I was going for.
>>
>> Like Ann though I don’t know what the tests for ellipsis are.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 10:17 AM Guy Emerson <gete2 at cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree that case is plausibly ellipsis, but what about:
>>>
>>> "Is he still working on that building?"
>>> "No, it's done."
>>>
>>> Or:
>>>
>>> "Is he still fitting the windows in that building?"
>>> "No, in fact the whole building is done."
>>>
>>> 2018-04-09 17:32 GMT+01:00 Emily M. Bender <ebender at uw.edu>:
>>>
>>>> “Is he still working on that building?”
>>>> “No, he’s done.”
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 9:29 AM Guy Emerson <gete2 at cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "The new building is done"
>>>>>
>>>>> The ellipsis would have to be something like:
>>>>>
>>>>> "The new building is done being built"
>>>>>
>>>>> But this sounds awkward to me.  Maybe "done" and "finished" pattern
>>>>> with adjectives that can't take a complement:
>>>>>
>>>>> "The new building is ready/complete"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2018-04-09 14:19 GMT+01:00 Ann Copestake <aac10 at cl.cam.ac.uk>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> my intuition is that there's no ellipsis - I don't know how to test
>>>>>> that, though
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 09/04/18 14:02, Emily M. Bender wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think it's more than just saying that it's optional though --- I
>>>>>> think the meaning Paul was looking for there involves ellipsis, which
>>>>>> probably isn't get enabled for "done", "finished", and whatever else goes
>>>>>> into that class.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Emily
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 12:34 AM, Ann Copestake <aac10 at cl.cam.ac.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> is it just that `done' as an adjective is in the ERG as requiring a
>>>>>>> complement and should be allowed to appear without one?  as in "the chicken
>>>>>>> is done" etc  So a matter of a modification to a lexical entry.  (I admit I
>>>>>>> am emailing without checking ...)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All best,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ann
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 06/04/2018 23:21, paul at haleyai.com wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks Olga and Woodley.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I understood the passive but had not considered “X did him”!   The
>>>>>>> others, to the best of my knowledge, leave X as the subject (not ARG2 or
>>>>>>> ARG3), no??
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are correct regarding what I expected Woodley and it may not be
>>>>>>> in the ERG.  The top parse for “he is done cooking” has him as the subject
>>>>>>> (with some interesting variations).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I understood the possibility that some unspecified agent was doing
>>>>>>> something to him (as in one interpretation of “he is done cooking”) and
>>>>>>> would have been impressed to see some “unknown” in the MRS to that effect.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At least I can make sense of this interpretation now, even though I
>>>>>>> was hoping for something else.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks again,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *From:* Woodley Packard <sweaglesw at sweaglesw.org>
>>>>>>> <sweaglesw at sweaglesw.org>
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, April 6, 2018 6:04 PM
>>>>>>> *To:* paul at haleyai.com
>>>>>>> *Cc:* developers <developers at delph-in.net> <developers at delph-in.net>
>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [developers] on-line demo / simple sentence
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As Olga pointed out, these are passive readings.  They correspond to
>>>>>>> something like:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> X did a good job.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> X did him.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He is done( by X).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> X did his neighbor a favor.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> X did his homework a favor.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ? X did his homework him.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ?? He is done his homework( by X).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I suspect the reading you are looking for instead involves a sense
>>>>>>> of "done" conveying completion of an unspecified event, rather than a
>>>>>>> passive variant of "do".  I’m not sure that sense is implemented in the
>>>>>>> ERG, although I can’t speak for Dan for sure on that.  I see parses with
>>>>>>> that sense when the event in question is an explicit complement of the
>>>>>>> adjective "done", e.g. for:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He is done eating.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Woodley
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Apr 6, 2018, at 2:36 PM, <paul at haleyai.com> <paul at haleyai.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I’m afraid I have a stupid question, but am a bit surprised at the
>>>>>>> following results (the MRS, in particular, having “he” as ARG2 or ARG3).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does this look right to those of you who know more than I?  Can you
>>>>>>> help me understand the subject of the “do” predication here, if so?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <image002.png>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <image001.png>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <image003.png>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient> Virus-free.
>>>>>>> www.avg.com
>>>>>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>>>>>>> <#m_7420865813244232409_m_-6077131389620866989_m_-3481619431223800434_m_365678170908420168_m_5482336798810589867_m_-7567825495734780756_m_-2257869889126536995_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Emily M. Bender
>>>>>> Professor, Department of Linguistics
>>>>>> Check out CLMS on facebook! http://www.facebook.com/uwclma
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>> Emily M. Bender
>>>> Professor, Department of Linguistics
>>>> Check out CLMS on facebook! http://www.facebook.com/uwclma
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>> Emily M. Bender
>> Professor, Department of Linguistics
>> Check out CLMS on facebook! http://www.facebook.com/uwclma
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Emily M. Bender
> Professor, Department of Linguistics
> Check out CLMS on facebook! http://www.facebook.com/uwclma
>

-- 
Michael Wayne Goodman
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.delph-in.net/archives/developers/attachments/20180409/d217da19/attachment-0001.html>